Access to Innovators Podcast with Dr. Ellen Zane

Chapters & Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the Access to Innovators podcast powered by the premier life skills university, High Point University. All right. Well, good morning. My name is Kristina Parimucha. I'm from St. Augustine, Florida. I'm majoring in healthcare management and minoring in operations and supply chain management. And I am so excited to be here today. I am going one-on-one with Ellen Zane. High Point University's healthcare executive in residence. Ellen, thank you so much for joining us today and thank you for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be here. It's an amazing and so exciting opportunity.

So, to get the podcast started off, I kind of wanted to get to know you on a more personal level. As the first woman to run Tufts as CEO and as president, what is something that intimidated you when you first stepped into the role and how did you overcome it? I wasn't intimidated is the honest answer. Oh, I love that.

0:58

So I was the first woman, uh, and the first non-physician, uh, to run the hospital in over 220 years. The hospital was founded in 1796 by Paul Revere. And it turns out that Paul Revere was the first public health commissioner of the city of Boston. And in that role, he founded the Boston Dispensary, which was really at the time an outpatient facility for the poor of Boston. And then over the years, it morphed and became an inpatient hospital. Uh, and then in the turn of the century, the floating hospital for children, which was really a ship in Boston Harbor, came on shore and became the floating hospital attached to what was then called New England Medical Center.

And in 1950 it became the principal teaching hospital for Tufts University School of Medicine. So it has an amazing historic history. It's the third oldest hospital in America. So, it has a wonderful, wonderful, rich history. Uh, and being the first woman and the first non- physician to run it was just an incredible honor. That's— I'm honestly speechless after hearing that because so many times you go to the hospital, you get care, and you go home. You don't think about the history or what goes on behind it. And so, the fact that Paul Revere, one of the people that we all know, we all studied in elementary school, correct?

The actual floating hospital because it was floating in the harbor and then it got attached. That's right. As a matter of fact, the baby formula Similac was founded, and Similac is used today. It was founded on that ship in Boston Harbor. It has just this incredible history. Uh, it really does. And it was Paul Revere and Samuel Adams. Both of them, uh, were actually founded, but primarily by Paul Revere because he was the public health commissioner in Boston. That's a way cool history. Yeah. Yeah. Most hospitals, I feel like, can't say. I mean maybe they can say that much about it.

I just haven't dove into their past. You're right. Most cannot. Yeah. Wow.

3:14

And then how do you like being in Boston in an area where there's Harvard, many prestigious universities, incredible hospitals. What is that experience like being surrounded by just incredibly inspiring people? It's really I'm so glad you asked because it is so enthralling. Um, it's a hub of very significant health care. There's a tremendous amount of bench research all the way through clinical and translational research in healthcare done in Boston. Some of the world's best academic medical centers and medical schools are in Boston. And Boston is a hub for the life sciences.

So between places like MIT and Harvard and Tufts and the University of Massachusetts um, the in Boston University, the four medical schools in Boston are Tufts, Harvard, Boston University and the University of Massachusetts. So we create new physicians of tomorrow uh, and we discover things with our research and we implement and execute them not only through the hospital academic hospitals but also through the life sciences. So it's quite invigorating and it pushes you to a higher standard because you can't be mediocre in that kind of an environment. And that's— do you get much time one-on-one with students or the people that are going to be the next generation of leaders and physicians and people making a difference?

I did in particular when I was running Tufts, uh, because we had many medical students that rotated through and certainly our residents and fellows who were in the corridors of our organizations. I always would say it's not about the buildings, it's about what happens in those buildings and the amount of research and training. We had a tripartite mission of excellence in clinical care but teaching the physicians of tomorrow and the research for the research of tomorrow. Wow. That's— I'm glad my health care is going to be in very safe hands in the future.

That's right. That's right. And there's this belief or this idea that people practice and it's management by walking around. What does that mean to you? So management by walking around isn't intellectually complex. It's about walking around, and I will tell you, um, it's important that as a leader one be approachable and whether it's somebody waxing the floors or delivering the food carts or a neurosurgeon, uh, that people feel comfortable stopping you and talking to you and the amount of business that gets done in the line of the cafeteria in the corridors or in the garage is amazing.

So, and then being seen, one of my favorite things always to do is on Christmas Day, uh, to do rounds, night rounds and morning rounds in the hospital because those people need to be thanked. And we all need to remember if it's a maintenance man or it's a housekeeper, those people are the glue that makes large, especially 24-hour 365 organizations run. And without those people, we need to know and appreciate those people because they are the glue that makes it all happen. Everyone makes a difference. Everyone makes the organization run. It's like an ecosystem.

It's an ecosystem. That's— one part's gone. It doesn't happen. So it isn't about the people that have a lot of degrees. Uh, it is— they're very important. That's— people don't go, you know, people don't go to buildings. People go to see a specialist in a particular area because their kid has a problem. So, it's not about the buildings, it's about the people in the buildings. Wow. That's just— And it's true. It's when people are talking about what they're comfortable with or what they're familiar with, they're talking about their physician that they've known their whole life or they're going to the best of the best.

They want to make sure their child, especially if it's their family members, are in the best care and the best hands possible. And it's very emotional, particularly— you hit it in pediatrics. It's very emotional. And remember, with the exception of people coming to a hospital to have a baby.

7:28

Yes. Other than that, most people don't want to be there. No. And uh, as a result you have to understand it's not an easy situation for families, and they are your stakeholders, and it's very important that all of our employees realize we're not there for them, within the families and the patients. Yeah. Do you have any memories or patients that you were able to kind of be more involved with their case or just know about that had an impact on you? I have to say there are so many examples at Tufts, for example, they do more heart transplants there uh than anybody else in the Northeast, anybody, by far.

And it's just it's a niche specialty. Many, many heart transplants. And there's nothing, by look, but nothing better than talking to a grateful patient and a grateful patient's family. On the other hand, if you go into the neonatal intensive care units, they're called NICU. When you go in there and you look at babies that you can hold in your hands, and they have little tiny hearts and little tiny spleens and little tiny livers, and some of these babies need significant care. They're born hugely prematurely. And I used to love to say to their parents, um, you know what?

This baby's going to graduate from high school just like all the other kids. And it helps to put it in perspective because when you look at them so tiny, it's really quite a thing. And I would bring occasionally a newspaper reporter uh into a NICU, and they all step back because they're afraid— these babies are in— there's all kinds of wires in them and things going on. And um, it was a very healthy experience for people who aren't in healthcare uh to be able to look at it and say, due to the great technology that we have, this baby will graduate from high school.

This baby will have a life like all other babies do. And uh, and it's just a wonderful feeling to see them when you can hold them in your hand and to know that because of the technology we have, these babies will be fine. It's hope. And it's hope. It's a sense of hope. It's hope that wouldn't have been there if there wasn't the technology, if the professionals weren't there, if people weren't there. Correct. It's, you know, people who go into healthcare self-select. And I always say, we're not making cookies. We're not making donuts. That's for somebody else that has a different desire in business.

Yes. Uh, people that are in healthcare self-select because there isn't any of us who don't get up in the morning and want to make a difference. That's why we go into healthcare. When you see those itsy-bitsy babies or you see a transplant patient live, uh, you know why you're doing it. I think that's such a beautiful thing for me to hear, especially at this point in my journey being in college, being a pharmacy tech at Publix. I just started volunteering at Cone Health, the hospital, a couple weeks ago. So, I'm trying to get more of that patient connection.

The thing that guides me is that at the end of the day, I want to help people and I want to make a difference in their lives. That's right. I don't care if that's as a pharmacy tech. I don't care if that's as a volunteer. I don't know if it's going to be in the insurance world or the business world, but as long as I'm making a difference, I'm helping people advocate for themselves, become confident in the care they're receiving, and knowing they're doing what's best for their future, for their trajectory. Correct. That's why I would— Well, you have absolutely the right mindset uh for it.

And it's every sing— and you named it. It doesn't matter whether you're a provider, an inventor, an insurer, in technology. Uh, you will— it takes us all uh to make a difference in healthcare. It's a giant industry. It's an enormous industry, and it's all under the bucket of healthcare, but it's a huge industry, and there are many avenues you could go down, but they're all necessary in order to come together to change someone's life. It matters. It matters for sure. One of our conversations earlier was talking about mentors and the importance of them, having your sponsor, having your coach.

11:29

Can you tell me about some times that you've had mentors that have helped you just believe in yourself and keep going when times were tough? Uh, one of the things I mentioned is that in my day because I'm not— is nearly— I'm triple your age or more. Um, women in particular weren't slated for leadership roles. And they were— they were all important roles, whether we were nurses or teachers or secretaries. They're all important roles. But the only reason I was able to do what I did was because of my mentors, because they would see things in me that I wouldn't have thought of in me.

And they would pull me aside and say, "You could do this." And I wouldn't have come to that on my own. So I'm very grateful to them for them to say, "Take a leap. Be scared. Uh, do that and try, and as we've said earlier, fail fast. If it isn't the right thing, if it isn't right for you, that's okay. And even today as I mentor other people and I often am asked to mentor physicians and physicians who want to go into, uh, business, the business side of medicine and I often say to them, you know, you have to be comfortable taking risk, not being averse to risk, and you have to be not a conflict avoider.

Too many people want to be loved. We all want to be loved. But if you are in leadership, everything you do is not going to be popular. Believe me, that's what leaders do. They deal with problems morning, noon, and night. That's what the dance is in leadership. And I often say to them, if it keeps you up at night, if you can't sleep, if it's eating your stomach lining, that's okay. Don't do it. And be a researcher by the bench or go be a physician and take care of patients. They'll all love you. You don't have to be a leader because leaders have to lead. And in order to do that, I always say if you want to get paid to be a leader, if you want to have the reputation of a leader, the aura of a leader, the title of a leader, then you got to act like a leader.

And that means you have to do hard stuff. And if you, if it's going to keep you up at night, then it isn't for you. Leadership is not for everybody. And young people should have a real understanding of what they want in their careers and feel comfortable not being a leader. But if it juices you up and you like the good old intensity of it, which I do, um, then leadership is for you. But it's not always a popularity contest. And people need to understand that going in. I feel like that's really important. There's a large emphasis on everyone can be a leader, and yes, everyone can be a leader in so many ways.

But you can still make a difference in this world. You can still make a difference. You can still be a leader in ways without being the leader of everything. Correct. It's an important point. You can lead by inventing something that's breakthrough. You can be a leader in many different ways. Um, without having the title and all of that, the crazy responsibility and the nutty responsibility. And I always say, you if you're really a leader, leadership jobs usually come big, jobs come in one size big. That's it. They come in one size big. And I have no respect for leaders who say, "Well, I go to Tahiti and I turn off my iPhone."

Forget it. That's not the way real leadership works. If, uh, Dr. Qubein is in Timbuktu, but a building, god forbid, burns down, he knows about it. Yeah. If HPU has a fire, we know about it. So leaders require intense, uh, you were intensely on the job and it's not for everybody and that's okay. Uh, but one has to be honest with oneself about that. Where do you think your original drive for leadership comes from? I think part of it is in my DNA, and part of it was in my family. Uh, my, uh, father, uh, was a leader and he enticed his daughters to be leaders and I married into a business-oriented family and I learned how to take business risk and I learned that risk is good.

The right risk is good, and I learned not to be fearful and I think too many people fear that they might fail, and if you're too fearful it's very hard to be a strong leader because leadership comes with risk. It just does. And you have to have enough strength in yourself that if you don't know the answer, and believe me, we all don't, that we know how to find the people who do know the answers, and that we are willing to surround ourselves. The worst leaders, so-called, are people who are afraid of hiring people who are smarter than they are, who make more money than they do, um, or who might who where they might feel subordinate to that person.

And if you're stuck on that, then you're not a leader and you shouldn't go into leadership. Yeah.

16:40

Yeah. As you said earlier, you want to be a nine hiring a 10. You want to be surrounded by better because it elevates standard. Right. I don't want to be with sevens and sixes. Nope. I want to be with nines and tens. Exactly. And then something for me and kind of guiding my journey in healthcare is both my parents work in the medical world in one way or another. How did you start your journey into the healthcare world? It was serendipity because my major in undergraduate and graduate school was audiology and speech pathology. So I was in a helping profession.

Yes. And I started by working with patients from kids all the way through elders, and uh then ended up my course trajectory ended up just by serendipity going from one thing to another. It was not planned. I think the wonderful thing today is that women in particular can think about that and can decide what they want to be the CEO of something. Um, so it's more planned today than it certainly was when I was in school. It was really largely serendipity. That's wonderful. Meant to be, meant to be on the right path. Yes.

17:43

And then some of your first leadership experiences walking into them, there's a phenomenon of women in leadership known as the glass cliff. Yeah. And it's not the glass ceiling where you see where you want to break through and break through it, but people see an opportunity that they know is destined to fail. So they give it to a woman so they can prove the bias that, okay, women can't do it. And from speaking with you, All of your opportunities have been glass cliffs, and you've, like, continued to fly over them and just succeed and just go amazing ways.

How do you stay motivated? How do you stay on track when you're navigating these unpredictable situations? So, I hope that any women that are listening to this, um, will understand that they have to just go out there and kill them with confidence. The rest takes care of itself. And when women have asked me glass ceiling or glass cliff type questions, I tell them, "Don't wear it on your sleeve. Don't think about it. Just go out there and kill them with confidence." And the cream rises to the top. Now it does. My own experience is, I think it takes longer, but that makes you better, the adversity, because it is harder for women, and I believe that it has been harder for women.

I believe 100% that made me better, because I'll never forget sitting in a room with a fellow who was CEO of a very large, very wealthy hospital in Boston, and he talked about times being hard and how he had a cut to the bone, and I said to myself, that guy doesn't have a clue about what cutting to the bone is, because those of us that had a harder time getting these jobs had to take harder jobs. We really had a cut to the bone. As I told you, my first CEO job was a place with eight days of cash. He never worked in a place with eight days of cash. But the truth is that really hard job made me a better leader than he is.

He's a great guy. I have a lot of respect for him. But sometimes that adversity makes you better. So I would say to all women, don't fuss. Don't fuss about it. Just go out there and kill them with confidence, and the rest takes care of itself. I like that because it's a thing of, you have a chance to take control, right? Especially now, you have the ability, you have the competence, you have that confidence, you have the skills, the mindset, the devotion to do it. I like that you do it and it builds confidence because I could sit there quietly and say to myself, "That guy doesn't have a clue what cutting to the bone is."

And I'm a stronger leader because I do know what it really means. You've been through it. I've been through it. Right.

20:23

What role have you had that's been your favorite? And I know that's kind of, it's a hard question to answer, but is there maybe not a role itself, but a particular day or a particular time in your career that you've been like, "This is it." Well, I have to say, overall my experience at Tufts Medical Center was my favorite. Um, it had no resources. It was poor. It was a turnaround. Um, and people would say to me, you left the Harvard system, because I did. I left Mass General Hospital and Brigham, two of the world's preeminent Harvard teaching hospitals, finest hospitals in the world, to step down and take a CEO role at Tufts, also a wonderful place, and all the doctors in Boston are great.

They all know each other. They've gone across town, worked in different places. So the medical care largely, if you're in Boston, it's about the same each place. But people would say to me, you left the preeminent Harvard teaching hospitals that were rich to do a turnaround at Tufts. Why did you do that? And I always would answer that question by saying I did it for Paul Revere. And the truth is I did, because I believed so much about his legacy about the fact that Boston needed health care beyond Harvard. And so I have to say I walked into Tufts, they all knew the place had trouble, but what the employees and the physicians wanted to know was that there was an adult in charge, and they knew I came from the Harvard system, and they knew that I wouldn't have come if I didn't see a future, which is absolutely true.

And I never worked in a culture that was better. It was a real, with a little train that could. And there was a can-do mentality, much more family-like, much more collaborative, much more collegial, higher sense of camaraderie than I ever saw at the other places. So working in a culture that is strong. High Point is a great example of a very strong, positive culture. And there's a saying that we've all heard sometimes too much, that culture eats strategy. I am a big believer that it does. You can do a miracle of things when you work in a strong, healthy culture.

When a culture is toxic, it's much harder, no matter how much money you have. So, I would say I love Tufts because it was a— it was a poor facility when I first got there, but it was a facility with a strong, wonderful culture with great care. And being the first non-physician to run the place, no one could have had a warmer welcome than I had. And everyone, whether doctors or security guards, they all— if I said to them, "Guys, today we're going left, but tomorrow we might have to go right." And everybody would say, "Okay, we're with you." And it was because the culture was so strong.

And anyone affiliated with High Point understands uh, because this university also has a very strong, positive culture. I really like that. How do you think the culture got so strong in the first place? Uh, you know, it predated me. I take no credit for it. Um, it absolutely predated me. I think because if you put Tufts Medical Center in someplace out in the Midwest, okay, it would be huge and it would be the place. In Boston, it's just another academic medical center. It's not the hugest. It's because there's so much academic medicine, uh, there. And I think because by Boston standards, it's smaller, there's a warmer climate there, a warmer sense, a can-do attitude that we're family.

And, um, in the bigger places it's not so much family, a little more sharp elbows. Um, and I would see people frankly, on the Harvard side where they had huge skills, uh, that got lost in the organization somewhere at Tufts. It was all hands on deck. We're thrilled you're here and we have plenty for you to do. So, the more you wanted to take on, the more you would get. So, I think adversity sometimes creates, uh, a strong culture. That's cool. And that's something that I work for Publix and that's a big part of our company culture as well, is that you're always helping people.

No matter what role you have, you are making a difference. And then customer is king. Obviously, we're customer service, so that's a big part of it. Yes. But every store you go into, whether you're in Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, it's the same. The culture is there that you're there to help patients. You're there to help customers. You then make the experience better overall. I must say what you're saying is true because I live in I have my winter home is in Florida. Yes. And there's a Publix and everybody talks about where do you live in relationship to the Publix?

And, um, when you go in there, it is different than a lot of other places. It's much warmer, more collaborative, much better. Yeah. And they start that from the top. There's the expectation from the top. George Jenkins, our founder, he was an absolutely incredible person that said, "This is a family. We are a family and this is going to be home for so many people." And it's true. So when during the hurricanes this October in Florida, oh my gosh. Um, I my home is right on the beach, and, uh, our car was moved to the Publix parking lot and apparently I wasn't here.

I was up north, but apparently there were hundreds of cars that were parked in that lot. Why? Because there were no trees in the parking lots to fall onto the cars. And because, um, it was the highest point in Florida is so flat. It was like 13 feet above sea level, which is like a mountain in Florida. And Publix allowed that to happen. And my car was there for like two weeks. And it was the culture of Publix to say, "We're in the community and we have to help." Wow. And that's workplace culture, people culture, it all matters. And it does eat strategy for breakfast sometimes.

26:28

And then to High Point students, High Point families, what advice would you give them in their careers and their professions, how are they going to make the most of their time here at the university? Um, I've learned this is an extraordinary, uh, university with extraordinary leadership that is so farsighted uh, and understands what people need and how to give it to them in ways I've not seen often in universities, and I've sat on a number of university boards, so I'm duly impressed with every time I come to High Point I feel it even more because it continues to improve and there's a lot here and I think you gave an example that I heard recently about your own, uh, ability to go in as the furniture capital of the world and to take advantage of a supply chain, uh, learning from a one, a furniture company.

And I think understand what's here, really learn what's here and take advantage of it because, you know, once you finish and you're off doing the rest of your life you'll always regret if you didn't. So there's a lot. North Carolina is a hot place right now. There's a lot going on in research here. Um, and there's this population is growing and it's a really well-reputed area and I would say uh, learn what's happening here and don't don't leave any stone unturned. Thank you. I really appreciate that insight and advice, and I know High Point students will as well.

Thank you again for joining us on Access to Innovators podcast. It was so much fun. Thank you.

This episode of HPU's Access to Innovators podcast features student Kristina Parimucha in conversation with Dr. Ellen Zane, High Point University's Healthcare Executive in Residence and former CEO of Tufts Medical Center. Zane shares the storied history of the hospital, reflects on memorable patient experiences, and discusses mentorship, risk-taking, and the "glass cliff" phenomenon facing women in leadership. She closes with advice for HPU students on how to make the most of their time at the university while pursuing meaningful healthcare careers.

Access to Innovators Podcast with Dr. Ellen Zane

Introduction

What is the surprising history behind Tufts Medical Center?

What makes Boston such a unique hub for healthcare?

What patient stories stand out in her career?

How have mentors shaped a career in healthcare leadership?

How did she serendipitously enter healthcare?

What is the glass cliff phenomenon in leadership?

What career moment stands out as most rewarding?

What career advice does she give to HPU students?